Posts by Anony Mous

144

Hailstone message AND everyone will be saved? Questions

by slimboyfat in

i’ve not been paying close attention to watchtower developments, but talking to a jw yesterday it occurred to me the society (yes, still use that term - old school) have been sending out mixed messages in recent years.

from what i gather, a few years ago the gb announced that during the great tribulation jws would be required to preach a “hailstone message of judgement” which involved telling people it was too late for them to repent and they were definitely going to be destroyed.

there were hints that this could be very soon, “any day now” preaching could stop and the hailstone message come in, kind of thing.

Anony Mous

@slimboyfat: your original stance is correct that is what I always was learned.

However in the past 1-2 decades they had changed that to say that people that know about JWs but did not convert or knowingly rejected them (aka bible studies that did not end in baptism, spouses, children and apostates) would not be saved either after death or the great tribulation.

If what you say is true, and I have no doubt it could be interpreted that way, that is a complete reversal on doctrinal things from complete batshit crazy end of day cults that resulted in numerous kidnappings and apparently even a few murders in the past to “mainstream Christian church”, “everyone is loved” hippy dippy bullshit.

I don’t know the exact timelines on every doctrinal change in the directions but it seems to me the eviction of Anthony Morris and retirement of a few other old timers has its effects.

However do be careful, if the source of the material is well published “official stance” kinds of stuff then it is not unusual to have duplicitous messages. I wouldn’t be surprised that they present these public annual addresses that no real JW watches as a “this is what we officially believe, we don’t control what our followers believe” kind of excuse for the courts, investors etc. Once they publish it in the non-public Watchtower and provide this new guidance to CO and elder schools about the changes, then it’s official.

32

New approach to ministry

by Mikejw in

jw
friends

there is a new approach to ministry where the direction is to just talk to people and listen to what they want to talk about.

the new school for the midweek meeting is completely different and is all about the new approach .

even before the no reporting changes field service dropped right off.

Anony Mous

Is this official or is this just JW social media trying to convince people to go back in service? If official, that is a huge change but people will feel duped after the first time having a nice chat with a sister when they come back for their “date” with a bible.

48

The Date for the Memorial is WRONG this year!

by Kelley959 in

an interesting video was on youtube with a person claiming that the memorial date for 2024 was wrong.

so i consulted three different jewish calendars online and sure enough, he appears to be right.

i went back to 2014 and forward to 2027. they have the future dates listed.

Anony Mous

No, I did not say that Nisan 14 was a sabbath, I said that the events following the lord’s meal must have ended or gone through a sabbath if the assertion is that the lord’s meal, as JWs imply, happens on Nisan 14 after sundown. I was merely pointing out the logical error that if you put the Lord’s meal on the beginning of Nisan 14, the earliest he could’ve died and still fit in all the events was Nisan 15, and that is ignoring lots and lots of things that would still not make sense (like a lot of the legal procedures would need to starting and ending that night, as if a Roman was going to rise from his bed to adjudicate some poor sap).

The Bible puts the day of death on EITHER Nisan 14 or Nisan 15 depending on the gospel and tradition says Nisan 14 was a Friday at about 3pm (because he needs to be taken down, wrapped and buried by 6pm). My opinion, as is that of most Bible scholars and churches is that the day of the Lord’s supper must have happened on that Wednesday or perhaps earlier (Nisan 12 for a death to happen by 3pm of Nisan 14). You keep implying there is a fixed date of Nisan 14, as JWs hold, in which everything, including the meal, must take place within ~20 hours, including the requisite two days of trial for a capital punishment, but it simply isn’t supported by Biblical or contemporary sources.

48

The Date for the Memorial is WRONG this year!

by Kelley959 in

an interesting video was on youtube with a person claiming that the memorial date for 2024 was wrong.

so i consulted three different jewish calendars online and sure enough, he appears to be right.

i went back to 2014 and forward to 2027. they have the future dates listed.

Anony Mous

@Kerry: read my previous post on that subject in this thread as to why it is impossible for all that to have transpired in less than 24 hours. The synoptic gospels all record his death on Nisan 15 as a result of the statement that the Last Supper is a Passover meal which is obviously then entering the Sabbath as you point out. The Sanhedrin requires 2 days for a capital punishment to be considered, you have at least 2 nights recorded in the gospels. Only John recorded Nisan 14 as his day of death.

Early Christians subsequently understood the Last Supper to be on a Thursday in order not to have the timeline conflict.

Sir Colin Humphrey which has a book on the subject and calculated this according to astronomy and timeline of the events “A Wednesday Last Supper with the Crucifixion on Friday also allows just the right amount of time for all the events the Gospels record between the Last Supper and the Crucifixion”

48

The Date for the Memorial is WRONG this year!

by Kelley959 in

an interesting video was on youtube with a person claiming that the memorial date for 2024 was wrong.

so i consulted three different jewish calendars online and sure enough, he appears to be right.

i went back to 2014 and forward to 2027. they have the future dates listed.

Anony Mous

@Kerry: yes. My point is that JW say that the lord supper happens on Nisan 14, not his death. As I pointed out, from Nisan 14-16 no mass (meeting) or communion (passing/partaking of bread/wine) should take place.

48

The Date for the Memorial is WRONG this year!

by Kelley959 in

an interesting video was on youtube with a person claiming that the memorial date for 2024 was wrong.

so i consulted three different jewish calendars online and sure enough, he appears to be right.

i went back to 2014 and forward to 2027. they have the future dates listed.

Anony Mous

@Kerry: according to scripture Jesus died on “the day of Preparation of the Passover” (John 19:14). - Nisan 14, Passover was on Nisan 15. According to the Synoptic Gospels Jesus died on Friday Nisan 15. The Lords Supper happened around Nisan 11-12.

Once a year after sundown on Nisan 14, Jehovah's Witnesses observe the Lord's Evening Meal (aka the Lord’s Supper). As they quote “do this in remembrance” and partake of communion. From their website: When Jehovah's Witnesses observe the Lord's Evening Meal, only a small fraction of us partake of the bread and wine. This is so they can align the scripture of the preparation under the JW myth that Jesus disciples were unaware what they were preparing for and thought they were getting Passover meal preparations. According to JW theology Jesus then gets convicted and executed the next morning/afternoon, which is an effort to align John with the other gospels, but is impossible to have been accomplished back then.

JW are celebrating the wrong thing on the wrong day and with the wrong people based on a wrong interpretation.

48

The Date for the Memorial is WRONG this year!

by Kelley959 in

an interesting video was on youtube with a person claiming that the memorial date for 2024 was wrong.

so i consulted three different jewish calendars online and sure enough, he appears to be right.

i went back to 2014 and forward to 2027. they have the future dates listed.

Anony Mous

There are many issues with the way the JW calculate things.

TL;DR: Jesus died on Nisan 14 (according to Jewish and Biblical sources) or 15 (according to John), the JW claim that was the day the last supper happened.

First, it is not know when the last meal actually took place. The Bible contains 2 separate stories and the entire timeline of Jesus’ last meal, transfiguration, betrayal, trial, execution and death is not exact or chronological between the stories.

There are religious reasons to have Jesus death happen on Passover or Passover-Seder but you can’t have the 2-3 last days of his life which started with the last meal map onto a single day as the JW claim.

If according to JW tradition, Jesus last supper was on Nisan 14 (Shabbat meal, co-inciding with Passover Seder), he could not have subsequently traveled (as Shabbat had started), kept his disciples awake, been betrayed that morning (Shabbat would apply to Judas and the priests), stood trial the requisite 2 days before the Sanhedrin (Shabbat+2), then (Shabbat +3) stood before Pilate, convicted to carry the cross all the way to Golgotha (which happened apparently during the day), been executed and required the legs broken in order to have the execution end before the same Shabbat/Passover we started with although this is required if JWs seem to interpret that the meal preparations were for Passover-Seder.

There is almost an entire week worth of events happening there, they didn’t have cars to drive from Mount of Olives between Herod’s Palace to the Temple twice and then to Golgotha, those are some big hikes to go back and forth.

Most early Christians would have held (as Catholics still do) that the last supper was a Tuesday or Wednesday although the communion happened a lot more frequently, they likely did not attach any significance to the exact time and date of the last supper, the church still holds to date that communion, mass, Eucharist etc should not happen between Good Friday and Holy Sunday (starting Nisan 14/15 after sundown depending on the story if you held to the Jewish calendar). The JWs however hold both “mass” and the sole communion they have in the year on that date.

7

New immigrant in New York State?

by was a new boy in

“state agencies have found 4,000 vacant positions in an effort to put illegal immigrants into the state’s workforce, according to a memo by the new york department of civil service, which was approved earlier this month.'.

in the memo, new york officials identified three barriers preventing illegal immigrants from getting those state jobs.

to address these barriers, the civil service department said it would create positions in ‘transitional’ titles with requirements ‘more in line with the candidates’ qualifications.’ in other words, illegal immigrants would be hired into the same positions while, at least temporarily, having the usual qualifications such as english proficiency, proof of education, and previous employment waived for them.”.

Anony Mous

It is not like this is a secret, you can find the clip of the NY Democrat on record saying that they need the immigrants for redistricting purposes. Basically, even if they can’t legally vote, they count in the census towards the population and thus the allocation of seats in Congress, so they need them to maintain Democrats power hold

Just in 2020, 3 seats were taken from Ohio, Alabama and Minnesota due to the counting of illegals in NY and CA and at current rate, it will be 4 to 6 seats in favor of Democrats that will be taken from other states purely due to illegal immigration. With every election coming down to 1 or 2 seats, this is significant. Now Biden alone has permitted approximately 1% of the US population (3M) to be grown by illegal immigrants just last year year (2M apprehensions and known getaways, 50% of that number is estimated unknown), largely in blue districts but supported/paid for by red districts. With the estimated continuous growth in those numbers this year, about 4% of the US population will have been ‘replaced’ by election time under Biden alone, similar numbers were posted by Obama.

7

New immigrant in New York State?

by was a new boy in

“state agencies have found 4,000 vacant positions in an effort to put illegal immigrants into the state’s workforce, according to a memo by the new york department of civil service, which was approved earlier this month.'.

in the memo, new york officials identified three barriers preventing illegal immigrants from getting those state jobs.

to address these barriers, the civil service department said it would create positions in ‘transitional’ titles with requirements ‘more in line with the candidates’ qualifications.’ in other words, illegal immigrants would be hired into the same positions while, at least temporarily, having the usual qualifications such as english proficiency, proof of education, and previous employment waived for them.”.

Anony Mous

Meanwhile NYS is experiencing one of the highest unemployment rates in the nation. And it’s not just 4,000, the goal according to the governor is to expand this pilot project to “solve” the crisis, with NYC alone currently at nearly half a million people (5% of the population). They are basically planning on replacing all expensive, unionized NYS government jobs (starting at 100k/y for sanitation workers) with low wage immigrants happy to work at minimum wage with unpaid overtime.

29

Patterson New Visitor Centre & Museum Announced

by raymond frantz in

https://www.jwupdates.com/post/new-patterson-visitor-center-and-first-century-museum.

january 1, 2024, marked the official opening of the patterson visitor center, located at the watchtower educational center in patterson, new york, u.s.a. the feature museum of the visitors’ center is entitled “first-century bible village.” brother isaiah miller, who works in the museum department at bethel, said: “the bible village was designed to provide everyone with a realistic and educational experience.

studies show that interactive learning has a powerful effect on people of all ages.” after her tour, one visitor exclaimed: “this museum made me feel like i had been transported back to the land of ancient israel.

Anony Mous

At least Ken Ham has employees and contractors that he has to pay. WTBTS has none of those, but they do calculate the representative value of an employee. So they ‘rent’ a Bethelite, there is an internal charge of $20/h+34% to WTBTS which they can then present to the state as an expense, they then turn around and the Bethelite gets what $100/week?

They do the same for quick-builds and other building projects, the internal costs are insanely overpriced and on the other end, any discounts, interest and credit card points go to the WTBTS rather than the project, they then present that complete price ticket to the local congregations to pony up in “loans” while also applying for any government grants and other discounts they can get.